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Dialoging with an Agnostic – Pt. 3

June 24, 2009
Do you read the Bible?  If not and you say you are a christian, then why not?

Test everything. Hold on to the good. - 1 Thes5:21

This post will take a little bit of a shift from the previous two.  Rather then draw my own conclusions based on Chris’s responses, I would like to examine Chris’s thoughts against scripture and see what that might have to say.  Lets dive right in.

4)      Is your unbelief more born out of the morality that comes with Christianity or is there another reason?  If so, what is/are those reasons?

It’s not that I have any sort of unbelief specifically; it’s more that I wouldn’t blindly follow anything without viable proof.

Chris had a response similar to this in one of his previous answers, but what does scripture have to say following without sight?

In John 20:24-31 we have the story of Thomas.  Thomas, much like Chris, stated he would not believe without the proof he sought.  Jesus tells Thomas to see and touch the wounds, stop doubting, and believe.  Then he blesses us who cannot see him with our physical eyes.

Faith is not a walk by sight but a gracious gift of God to follow without it.  You doubt in God based on what you cannot see and I doubt in your doubt because of what I can.  If you have questions about the authority of scripture, proof the resurrection happened, and the like, these are questions that can be answered. But do you want to answer them?

I doubt it. Why do I say that?  Lets take a look at the next question…

5)      With respect to morality, do you just feel like believing would basically mean that you would not get to do the stuff that you like to do because they are “bad”?

I don’t believe that anything I do is wrong in any ones eyes. I don’t feel that being a believer would change how I act on a daily basis at all.  Besides, isn’t the whole basis on religion of any sorts about forgiveness?

Let us take what Chris said line by line.  Is Chris trying to say that he does not do anything wrong (because it sure sounds that way)?  Nothing?  I think most of us that are reading this would not agree with that statement.  We all do things that are wrong.  The bible is abundantly clear about this.  Here are some examples I think might apply:

Romans 3:10-18, 1 John 1:8, Romans 3:23, 1 Kings 8:46, 2 Chronicles 6:36, Psalm 36:1-4, Psalm 51:3, Proverbs 14:9, Proverbs 17:19, Proverbs 20:9, Proverbs 21:4, Isaiah 5:18, and John 8:7

Becoming a believer does just change how we act.  It changes everything.  Jesus was not a moral legalist that called people to heartless rule following.  He was God in the flesh that called the sinners to repent and often rebuked the religious establishment of his time.  So if you are without sin Chris then you are right, Jesus is not for you

Lastly, religion is not about forgiveness.  It is an exhausting, hamster wheel pursuit of God that ultimately takes you nowhere in this life and utter despair in the next.  Christianity is exclusive.  It is the opposite of religion.  If you don’t believe me, take a look at this quote (comment 18 paragrah 26) from my atheist friend Teleprompter, who I frequently dialogue with over at fallenandflawed.com:

“…You assert that only in Christianity did God bear the punishment for sin. Well, I’ll grant you that for now, since I can’t immediately think of any counter-examples.”

Indeed, God did bear the punishment for us in Christ.  This is the hope of the Gospel.  It is what we believe

 

 



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3 Comments leave one →
  1. June 26, 2009 3:27 PM

    Hey Nathan, I love what you’re doing here. I wonder if Chris is going to get a chance to reply to your responses.

    I guess my one question to Chris would be: If he doesn’t believe that what he does isn’t wrong in any one’s eyes, is that true for everyone? In other words, is it okay if I say what I do isn’t wrong…especially if I stole his stereo?

  2. Chris permalink
    June 26, 2009 4:01 PM

    Demian – I don’t see that as the case, because the things I do don’t hurt other people. I believe that if no one is getting hurt by my actions they are not wrong. Now I don’t steal, lie, or cheat when it comes to other people. Now some people do things that are wrong. i.e. steal, murder and other bad things.

  3. andyholz1 permalink*
    June 26, 2009 11:14 PM

    Chris, with all due respect, all actions (good or bad) have consequences beyond ourselves. I don’t believe that it is possible to live and not have an impact on other people. Also, have you considered that your inaction could be hurting other people?

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